Google Streetview Ends the "Dancing Israelis" Hoax

Published on Saturday, June 22, 2002 by ABC News
The White Van

Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?
M illions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won't forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.

Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.
She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. "They seemed to be taking a movie," Maria said.

The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men's faces. "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange," she said.
She found the behavior so suspicious that she wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police. Before long, the FBI was also on the scene, and a statewide bulletin was issued on the van.
The plate number was traced to a van owned by a company called Urban Moving. Around 4 p.m. on Sept. 11, the van was spotted on a service road off Route 3, near New Jersey's Giants Stadium. A police officer pulled the van over, finding five men, between 22 and 27 years old, in the vehicle. The men were taken out of the van at gunpoint and handcuffed by police.

The arresting officers said they saw a lot that aroused their suspicion about the men. One of the passengers had $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock. Another was carrying two foreign passports. A box cutter was found in the van. But perhaps the biggest surprise for the officers came when the five men identified themselves as Israeli citizens.
According to the police report, one of the passengers told the officers they had been on the West Side Highway in Manhattan "during the incident" — referring to the World Trade Center attack. The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. When the men were transferred to jail, the case was transferred out of the FBI's Criminal Division, and into the bureau's Foreign Counterintelligence Section, which is responsible for espionage cases, ABCNEWS has learned. One reason for the shift, sources told ABCNEWS, was that the FBI believed Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.
After the five men were arrested, the FBI got a warrant and searched Urban Moving's Weehawken, N.J., offices. The FBI searched Urban Moving's offices for several hours, removing boxes of documents and a dozen computer hard drives. The FBI also questioned Urban Moving's owner. His attorney insists that his client answered all of the FBI's questions. But when FBI agents tried to interview him again a few days later, he was gone. Three months later 2020's cameras photographed the inside of Urban Moving, and it looked as if the business had been shut down in a big hurry. Cell phones were lying around; office phones were still connected; and the property of dozens of clients remained in the warehouse.The owner had also cleared out of his New Jersey home, put it up for sale and returned with his family to Israel.
Steven Gordon, the attorney for the five Israeli detainees, acknowledged that his clients' actions on Sept. 11 would easily have aroused suspicions. "You got a group of guys that are taking pictures, on top of a roof, of the World Trade Center. They're speaking in a foreign language. They got two passports on 'em. One's got a wad of cash on him, and they got box cutters. Now that's a scary situation."
But Gordon insisted that his clients were just five young men who had come to America for a vacation, ended up working for a moving company, and were taking pictures of the event.

The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case.

The five men were held in detention for more than two months. Some of them were placed in solitary confinement for 40 days, and some of them were given as many as seven lie-detector tests.

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.
Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities' interest in the case was heightened when some of the men's names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.
  According to Cannistraro, many people in the U.S. intelligence community believed that some of the men arrested were working for Israeli intelligence. Cannistraro said there was speculation as to whether Urban Moving had been "set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area."

Under this scenario, the alleged spying operation was not aimed against the United States, but at penetrating or monitoring radical fund-raising and support networks in Muslim communities like Paterson, N.J., which was one of the places where several of the hijackers lived in the months prior to Sept. 11.

For the FBI, deciphering the truth from the five Israelis proved to be difficult. One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10 weeks — then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.
Sources say the Israelis were targeting these fund-raising networks because they were thought to be channeling money to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, groups that are responsible for most of the suicide bombings in Israel. "[The] Israeli government has been very concerned about the activity of radical Islamic groups in the United States that could be a support apparatus to Hamas and Islamic Jihad," Cannistraro said.
The men denied that they had been working for Israeli intelligence out of the New Jersey moving company, and Ram Horvitz, their Israeli attorney, dismissed the allegations as "stupid and ridiculous."
Mark Regev, the spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, goes even further, asserting the issue was never even discussed with U.S. officials.
"These five men were not involved in any intelligence operation in the United States, and the American intelligence authorities have never raised this issue with us," Regev said. "The story is simply false."
 
Despite the denials, sources tell ABCNEWS there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies. Many U.S. government officials still believe that some of them were on a mission for Israeli intelligence. But the FBI told ABCNEWS, "To date, this investigation has not identified anybody who in this country had pre-knowledge of the events of 9/11."

Sources also said that even if the men were spies, there is no evidence to conclude they had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11. The investigation, at the end of the day, after all the polygraphs, all of the field work, all the cross-checking, the intelligence work, concluded that they probably did not have advance knowledge of 9/11," Cannistraro noted.
As to what they were doing on the van, they say they read about the attack on the Internet, couldn't see it from their offices and went to the parking lot for a better view. But no one has been able to find a good explanation for why they may have been smiling with the towers of the World Trade Center burning in the background. Both the lawyers for the young men and the Israeli Embassy chalk it up to immature conduct.

According to ABCNEWS sources, Israeli and U.S. government officials worked out a deal — and after 71 days, the five Israelis were taken out of jail, put on a plane, and deported back home.
While the former detainees refused to answer ABCNEWS' questions about their detention and what they were doing on Sept. 11, several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home.
Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event."

ABCNEWS' Chris Isham, John Miller, Glenn Silber and Chris Vlasto contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2002 ABCNEWS Internet Ventures

Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ...
By Neil Mackay

Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
THERE WAS ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.
Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis - and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.
Their discovery and arrest that morning is a matter of indisputable fact. To those who have investigated just what the Israelis were up to that day, the case raises one dreadful possibility: that Israeli intelligence had been shadowing the al-Qaeda hijackers as they moved from the Middle East through Europe and into America where they trained as pilots and prepared to suicide-bomb the symbolic heart of the United States. And the motive? To bind America in blood and mutual suffering to the Israeli cause.
After the attacks on New York and Washington, the former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was asked what the terrorist strikes would mean for US-Israeli relations. He said: "It's very good." Then he corrected himself, adding: "Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy for Israel from Americans."
If Israel's closest ally felt the collective pain of mass civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists, then Israel would have an unbreakable bond with the world's only hyperpower and an effective free hand in dealing with the Palestinian terrorists who had been murdering its innocent civilians as the second intifada dragged on throughout 2001. 
It's not surprising that the New Jersey housewife who first spotted the five Israelis and their white van wants to preserve her anonymity. She's insisted that she only be identified as Maria. A neighbour in her apartment building had called her just after the first strike on the Twin Towers. Maria grabbed a pair of binoculars and, like millions across the world, she watched the horror of the day unfold.
As she gazed at the burning towers, she noticed a group of men kneeling on the roof of a white van in her parking lot. Here's her recollection: "They seemed to be taking a movie. They were like happy, you know ... they didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was strange."
Maria jotted down the van's registration and called the police. The FBI was alerted and soon there was a statewide all points bulletin put out for the apprehension of the van and its occupants. The cops traced the number, establishing that it belonged to a company called Urban Moving.
Police Chief John Schmidig said: "We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up and down."
By 4pm on the afternoon of September 11, the van was spotted near New Jersey's Giants stadium. A squad car pulled it over and inside were five men in their 20s. They were hustled out of the car with guns levelled at their heads and handcuffed.
In the car was $4700 in cash, a couple of foreign passports and a pair of box cutters - the concealed Stanley Knife-type blades used by the 19 hijackers who'd flown jetliners into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon just hours before. There were also fresh pictures of the men standing with the smouldering wreckage of the Twin Towers in the background. One image showed a hand flicking a lighter in front of the devastated buildings, like a fan at a pop concert. The driver of the van then told the arresting officers: "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem."
His name was Sivan Kurzberg. The other four passengers were Kurzberg's brother Paul, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were dragged off to prison and transferred out of the custody of the FBI's Criminal Division and into the hands of their Foreign Counterintelligence Section - the bureau's anti-espionage squad.
A warrant was issued for a search of the Urban Moving premises in Weehawken in New Jersey. Boxes of papers and computers were removed. The FBI questioned the firm's Israeli owner, Dominik Otto Suter, but when agents returned to re-interview him a few days later, he was gone. An employee of Urban Moving said his co-workers had laughed about the Manhattan attacks the day they happened. "I was in tears," the man said. "These guys were joking and that bothered me. These guys were like, Now America knows what we go through.'"
Vince Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counter-terrorism with the CIA, says the red flag went up among investigators when it was discovered that some of the Israelis' names were found in a search of the national intelligence database. Cannistraro says many in the US intelligence community believed that some of the Israelis were working for Mossad and there was speculation over whether Urban Moving had been "set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists".
This makes it clear that there was no suggestion whatsoever from within American intelligence that the Israelis were colluding with the 9/11 hijackers - simply that the possibility remains that they knew the attacks were going to happen, but effectively did nothing to help stop them.
After the owner vanished, the offices of Urban Moving looked as if they'd been closed down in a big hurry. Mobile phones were littered about, the office phones were still connected and the property of at least a dozen clients were stacked up in the warehouse. The owner had cleared out his family home in New Jersey and returned to Israel.
Two weeks after their arrest, the Israelis were still in detention, held on immigration charges. Then a judge ruled that they should be deported. But the CIA scuppered the deal and the five remained in custody for another two months. Some went into solitary confinement, all underwent two polygraph tests and at least one underwent up to seven lie detector sessions before they were eventually deported at the end of November 2001. Paul Kurzberg refused to take a lie detector test for 10 weeks, but then failed it. His lawyer said he was reluctant to take the test as he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.
Nevertheless, their lawyer, Ram Horvitz, dismissed the allegations as "stupid and ridiculous". Yet US government sources still maintained that the Israelis were collecting information on the fundraising activities of groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mark Regev, of the Israeli embassy in Washington, would have none of that and he said the allegations were "simply false". The men themselves claimed they'd read about the World Trade Centre attacks on the internet, couldn't see it from their office and went to the parking lot for a better view. Their lawyers and the embassy say their ghoulish and sinister celebrations as the Twin Towers blazed and thousands died were due to youthful foolishness.
The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they "did not know anything about 9/11".
Back in Israel, several of the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One of them made this remarkable comment: "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." But how can you document an event unless you know it is going to happen?
We are now deep in conspiracy theory territory. But there is more than a little circumstantial evidence to show that Mossad - whose motto is "By way of deception, thou shalt do war" - was spying on Arab extremists in the USA and may have known that September 11 was in the offing, yet decided to withhold vital information from their American counterparts which could have prevented the terror attacks.
Following September 11, 2001, more than 60 Israelis were taken into custody under the Patriot Act and immigration laws. One highly placed investigator told Carl Cameron of Fox News that there were "tie-ins" between the Israelis and September 11; the hint was clearly that they'd gathered intelligence on the planned attacks but kept it to themselves.
The Fox News source refused to give details, saying: "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." Fox News is not noted for its condemnation of Israel; it's a ruggedly patriotic news channel owned by Rupert Murdoch and was President Bush's main cheerleader in the war on terror and the invasion of Iraq.
Another group of around 140 Israelis were detained prior to September 11, 2001, in the USA as part of a widespread investigation into a suspected espionage ring run by Israel inside the USA. Government documents refer to the spy ring as an "organised intelligence-gathering operation" designed to "penetrate government facilities". Most of those arrested had served in the Israeli armed forces - but military service is compulsory in Israel. Nevertheless, a number had an intelligence background.
The first glimmerings of an Israeli spying exercise in the USA came to light in spring 2001, when the FBI sent a warning to other federal agencies alerting them to be wary of visitors calling themselves "Israeli art students" and attempting to bypass security at federal buildings in order to sell paintings. A Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report suggested the Israeli calls "may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity". Law enforcement documents say that the Israelis "targeted and penetrated military bases" as well as the DEA, FBI and dozens of government facilities, including secret offices and the unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.
A number of Israelis questioned by the authorities said they were students from Bezalel Academy of Art and Design, but Pnina Calpen, a spokeswoman for the Israeli school, did not recognise the names of any Israelis mentioned as studying there in the past 10 years. A federal report into the so-called art students said many had served in intelligence and electronic signal intercept units during their military service.
According to a 61-page report, drafted after an investigation by the DEA and the US immigration service, the Israelis were organised into cells of four to six people. The significance of what the Israelis were doing didn't emerge until after September 11, 2001, when a report by a French intelligence agency noted "according to the FBI, Arab terrorists and suspected terror cells lived in Phoenix, Arizona, as well as in Miami and Hollywood, Florida, from December 2000 to April 2001 in direct proximity to the Israeli spy cells".
The report contended that Mossad agents were spying on Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehi, two of leaders of the 9/11 hijack teams. The pair had settled in Hollywood, Florida, along with three other hijackers, after leaving Hamburg - where another Mossad team was operating close by.
Hollywood in Florida is a town of just 25,000 souls. The French intelligence report says the leader of the Mossad cell in Florida rented apartments "right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi". More than a third of the Israeli "art students" claimed residence in Florida. Two other Israelis connected to the art ring showed up in Fort Lauderdale. At one time, eight of the hijackers lived just north of the town.
Put together, the facts do appear to indicate that Israel knew that 9/11, or at least a large-scale terror attack, was about to take place on American soil, but did nothing to warn the USA. But that's not quite true. In August 2001, the Israelis handed over a list of terrorist suspects - on it were the names of four of the September 11 hijackers. Significantly, however, the warning said the terrorists were planning an attack "outside the United States".
The Israeli embassy in Washington has dismissed claims about the spying ring as "simply untrue". The same denials have been issued repeatedly by the five Israelis seen high-fiving each other as the World Trade Centre burned in front of them.
Their lawyer, Ram Horwitz, insisted his clients were not intelligence officers. Irit Stoffer, the Israeli foreign minister, said the allegations were "completely untrue". She said the men were arrested because of "visa violations", adding: "The FBI investigated those cases because of 9/11."
Jim Margolin, an FBI spokesman in New York, implied that the public would never know the truth, saying: "If we found evidence of unauthorised intelligence operations that would be classified material." Yet, Israel has long been known, according to US administration sources, for "conducting the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any US ally". Seventeen years ago, Jonathan Pollard, a civilian working for the American Navy, was jailed for life for passing secrets to Israel. At first, Israel claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but the government later took responsibility for his work.
It has always been a long-accepted agreement among allies - such as Britain and America or America and Israel - that neither country will jail a "friendly spy" nor shame the allied country for espionage. Chip Berlet, a senior analyst at Boston's Political Research Associates and an expert in intelligence, says: "It's a backdoor agreement between allies that says that if one of your spies gets caught and didn't do too much harm, he goes home. It goes on all the time. The official reason is always visa violation."
What we are left with, then, is fact sullied by innuendo. Certainly, it seems, Israel was spying within the borders of the United States and it is equally certain that the targets were Islamic extremists probably linked to September 11. But did Israel know in advance that the Twin Towers would be hit and the world plunged into a war without end; a war which would give Israel the power to strike its enemies almost without limit? That's a conspiracy theory too far, perhaps. But the unpleasant feeling that, in this age of spin and secrets, we do not know the full and unadulterated truth won't go away. Maybe we can guess, but it's for the history books to discover and decide.
Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9/11
 

 
Google Streetview Ends the "Dancing Israelis" Hoax

Lets now consider it all

Immediately after the attacks of 911 there were many unsubstantiated reports swirling around who was behind the attacks. There were major news outlets reported the arrest of Israelis who were near the collapse of the World Trade Center.

It all began with Maria. She had grabbed her binoculars to gaze at the towers aflame. She says she looks down to see 5 people dancing and celebrating as they viewed the catastrophe.They were on a white van in some reports. Later this was embellished into absurdity with with descriptions of the 5 men in Arab clothing and holding lighters as if this was a rock concert. She says there were actually dancing. She thought it was strange that they were happy. There were other details like the men high-fiving each other She reported that the van was on her apartment building's parking.They were described as filming it with a video cam/ You can only face the World Trade Center from Liberty State Park. Not her apartment tower parking lot far far away.

Now look at the 2 streetview photos. One is the vantage point facing the deadly scene. The other is the only apartment towers far away. You cant even see a parking lot. Watch the video where Maria shows us the binoculars she used. They are a low power type. Were the Israelis dancing? No!they were like many onlookers that say gesturing wildly at the horror before their very eyes. I myself faced Manhattan from Staten. Island. All the people around me were also excitedly gesturing and expressing abject horror with our arms, hands, face and body movements. One of the 5 Israelis was recording it with a video cam. There were people next to me with video cams as well. Maria was too far away to make out exactly what she saw so she filled in the blanks with assumptions of her own making, How she thought Liberty State Park was her parking lot baffles me. Police Chief John Schmidig supposedly had said: "We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up and down."
Three individuals? Not five?
Whats wrong with jumping up and down excitedly. I know I was.

Maria next reported that she jotted down the vehicle registration in some reports or license in others. You need to be a high resolution satellite to see the registration and Maria'a low power binocs could've hardly gave her the ability to make out the license plates. Remember where Liberty State Park is and where she lived. Watch the video it shows her parking lot not any way is it Liberty State Park. Thats the concrete part if the story as I see it, sketchy as it is.

The plate number was traced to a van owned by a company called Urban Moving. Reports say it was a moving van. Israelis operate many moving companies in New York. There are embellishments saying they were on the George Washington bridge trying to blow it up. These 2 reports have them apprehended near Giants stadium. What made them stand out? Were the police checking license plates on all white vans on that crazy day? Just because people were seen dancing in Liberty State park?? Do you know how many thousands of white vans transverse the tri-states transportation routes??

There were reports of explosives found in the van or trace of explosives. Those were as reliable as the Arab clothing.

During interrogation they revealed themselves as Mossad agents. Would Mossad agents make a spectacle of themselves?? Dancing. They lived in Israel during the bombings and gun battles of the 2nd intifada. They were hard nosed experienced men.

Sources told ABCNEWS, was that the FBI believed Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation. Now Mossad showing al Qaeda makes sense. There are reports that the van had communications equipment. If the FBI was sitting on their hands before 911 at least the Israelis weren't. It was reported they were driving on the West Side Highway as the attack took place. So HOW did they suddenly teleport to Liberty State Park.

There was one bit of believability "The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they "did not know anything about 9/11".'

Later on 5 men showed up supposedly on a Israeli talk show. That segment is in the video. Were they Sivan Kuzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari? The talk show Mossad guys look more like students. Their most famous quote was
"The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." Aha! said those wanting to blame anybody but Atta and friends They knew ahead of time so they placed themselves there waiting for the planes. If you translate the Hebrew correctly it was that since they were already there they documented the event.

Later irresponsible journalists like Neil McKay and Carl Cameron included much hearsay and false reports like the Israeli Art Students penetrating US bases, or showing the 911 hijackers or Israelis trying to penetrate the Mexican Parliament. Mexico has a Congress not a Parliament. Has another of this been followed up in the past decade? Nope. They never happened.

Jew hating on Youtube and Andrew Magee's Army of Clones

ME and Andrew Magee -

 If you wanted to debates issues of the heart like politics or religion you would go to the many forums you find on the internet for that. However by about two years ago the largest forum in the world was recognized as such.  That was the comment threads on Youtube. I had gone there for many reasons. But I began to notice Jew hatred emerging in the threads. It was  great medium to spread lies, exaggerations, and disinformation to the comments of the videos posted. There was no one to refute lies about  Judaism, the Talmud,  the Jewish people and the State of Israel.
I had been doing this concentrating on forums where I could confront Jew Haters. First there was Michael Santomauro's hatemongering Reportersnotebook message board. There I found out when you argue your points cooly and logically you disperse the bigots. Not all the bigots but most. Usually they go through stages
of  denial, outrage, insults, tantrums before vanishing. That board was closed down for its volation of  hate sppech. I next went to Liberty Forum. That was closed by the administrators, Maybe I posted too many stories of Holocaust survivors where many posters were Holocaust deniers. Next to Pravda Forum. That forum still operates but clealy Jew hatred was tolerated even favored by the administrators.
Bored there I went to Youtube. Its was being ravaged by hatemongers. Like the forums I noticed opposition to the bigots slowly mount. I operated with the same strategy.
One youtube account that was particularly pissed by my arguements was MrJapaneseboy11111.  He was the classic Jew hater. He claimed he was an anti-zionist but you could see his comments were hate speech regarding Jews. Other users informed me he was a impersonator? "Whats that" I thought? Its when a user opens an account with a name close to anothers name in order to discredit them and ruin their credibility. Lo and behold there was a MrJapaneseboy1111 who was a Zionist.
This MrJapaneseboy11111 freaked out after a month and tied to bombard  me with spam. 115 messages in one night. He trolled every comment I posted. He tried to harass me off of the site.  This was an attempt to scare me away. Instead I reported him to youtube with screenshots. In a week he was history, disabled and gone, I thought. A week  later he opens an account as KrepIach2 . It was ingenius I admit as it looked exactly like my account Kreplach2. The I and L were identical in fonts used by Youtube. He continued to troll me now as KrepIach througly confusing users and posters, All appeals to YT were never answered. It seems they took a whole creating software to respond to user on user conflict. 
It was obvious from his language that the same user  has many accounts, all trolling me.  There was flummoxed, tinnywhales, as well as FFPaleSWINE (2 accounts in this name) and flumoxed. These extra accounts are called clones. When I created a clone Kreplach3 he just created KrepIach3.
 After 4 months we came to a truce. He agreed to use flumoxed only. But it lasted just a month. As he returned to troll, harass and spam me I discovered his main account . It was amagee590. It was Andrew Magee of  the Andy Rantz blog. And so the battle went up a notch. I warned everyone debating him if his true identity. You see while Andrew debates he uses error filled "facts" and most times leads people in wild goose chases through the Youtube. Those he dislikes he harasses and insults to this very day. He troll (follows) them hurling invectives. Its apparent he's on his own vitual ethnic cleansing campaign of Jew, Zionists and anyone not a Jew hater.  Knowing his expendaIn disgust and desperation I created a video detailing his illegal actions . Me and Andrew Magee, see above.  Andrew did as amagee590, flumoxed2, and  the Krepiach clones. Youtube couldnt deal with this. 2 more months passed and FINALLY Yotuve introduced its "Safety tool". You could report impersonations and POOF! the krepoachs were gone. For some strange reason Youtube went all politically correct incorrectly deleting my video of him as hate speech. So I created a "Just the facts, ma'm" video called Army of Clones about Andrew Magee. Same reason was given as before. I appealed and somebody actually watched it reversing the decision.
Today Andrew Magee with this dozens of clones hits spam with his multiple accounts in order to hide comments favorable to  Israel and the Jews. If you go to the comment swction of my profiles you will see some of his mant clones invented to exact revenge. They are cocosurprise, pinesuprise, dullroarful, triumphful, Mrgreatdefender, Mywill1000, belltop99, 
rufusguts100, kerplach2, kreplacn2 and others.  Asuredly he has dozens more, but he mainly uses flumoxed2, FFpaleSwine which he recently resurrected; and of course the indispensible amagee590. Following him denouncing him and informing other user got me some violations. but it was worth it. Then Magee created 2 videos of his own. Even he admitted they were boring. Basically he just calls me names and refers to me as a liar.

Simply Answering Michael Collon's "Ten Big Lies"

 Simply Answering Michael Collon's "Ten Big Lies"


Michel Collon, a Belgian journalist and author,has recounted "10 big lies" spread by Western media in order to "justify the existence and actions of Israel", which are concisely presented below:
Michel Collon is amazingly myopic and ignorant about his own 10 points. here I refute them.
1. The first lie is that Israel was established in reaction to the massacre of Jews during the World War II.
This notion is completely wrong. Israel is in fact a domineering project which was approved in the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland, in 1897, when nationalist Jews decided to occupy Palestine.

1.The Zionist Congress in Basel 1897 resolved to set up a Jewish homeland not a Jewish republic in Turkish Lower Syria. A homeland is not a separate Jewish political entity but a haven where Jews can live and worship unmolested.

2. The second justification for establishing and legitimizing Israel is that the Jews are returning to their forefathers' land, from where they had been driven away in 70 A.D.
This is a tale. I have spoken to the famous Israeli historian Shlomo Sand and other historians and they all believe that there has been no "exodus," so "return" is meaningless. The people living in Palestine have not left their land in the ancient era. In fact the descendents of Jews residing in Palestine are the people who are currently living in Palestine. Those who claim they want to return to their lands originate for Western and Eastern Europe and Northern Africa. Sand says there is no Jewish nation. The Jews do not have common history, language or culture. The only common thing between them is their religion, and religion does not make a nation.
2. Michel Colon is very confused here.He denies there was an exodus from Israel.Is he talking about Moses and the Exodus from Egypt of which currently there is only speculative evidence or that The destruction of Jerusalem and the ending of Judea, impelled the Jews to seek refuge across Europe and Asia. That was no exodus and it is fully documented. It should be noted that Jews were not driven away from their forefathers land. Religion does make a nation.
The Jews, as a religion,  have a common desire tr develop lonks and return to Judea/Israel, Collon seems to imply that ancestry or genetics defines the Jew and not the religion. The  Muslims  Arabs/Palestinians who are descended from Jews  are foremost Muslim. Same with the Christian Arabs/Palestinians.

3. The third lie is that when Jewish immigrants occupied Palestine, it was an empty and uninhibited country. However, there are documents and evidences that prove that in the 19th century the agricultural products of Palestine were exported to different countries, including France.

3 When the Zionists arrived in 1878 it was not empty or uninhabited. But it WAS sparsely poulated by many ethnic groups including Muslim and Christian Arabs, Jews, Copts, Bosnians, Greeks, Circassians, Armenians, etc  Jews were the majority in Jerusalem since 1843. The desolate state of the area doesnt not exempt any exportation industries such as Jaffa oranges.

4. Fourth, some people say Palestinians left their country on their own free will.
This is another lie, which lots of people believed, including myself. Until Israeli historians like Benny Morris and Ilan Pappe said that Palestinians were driven away and banished from their lands by using force and terror.
4. At the time of the 700,000 Arabs leaving Palestine the Israeli army was 27,000 and too small to effect such an eviction certainly while fending off 5 Arab Armies.
The leaders of the 5 Arab Armies of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Transjordan requested that the 700,000 Arabs leaves their homes temporarily so that the 5 Armoes can can effect an ethnic cleansing of Jews from British Palestine and no Arabs would suffer harm.  False reports from Arab radio about massacres induced money to flee. There were expulsions as well. They amounted to 800 to 10000.

5. It is said that today Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and it should be protected; it is the "government of law."
But in my opinion not only it is not the government of law; it is the only regime that no law defines its territory and boundaries. All the countries of the world have a constitution which defines their boundaries, but no such thing applies to Israel. Israel is an expansionist project which knows no boundary, and its law is completely racist; according to this law Israel is the country for Jews, and its non-Jew citizens are not considered human. Such law is a contradiction to democracy..

5. Israelis boundaries are not ruled by a law as they are the ceasefire lines from 1948. The UN has stated must  these borders be negotiated . They are commonly known as the 1967 borders but really are 1948 ceasefire lines. Muslims and Christians have full rights in Israel. In fact Muslims have more rights as a citizen than any Arab state. Non-Jews are considered human. The latter statement by Michel Collon derives from falsified Talmud quotes

6. It is said that the US tries to protect democracy in the Middle East by protecting Israel. And we know that the US annual financial aid to Israel amounts to 3 billion dollars. This money is used for bombarding Israel's neighbor countries.
 But America is not after establishing democracy in the Middle East; it wants the undisturbed flow of oil.

6. Any military action against certain neighbors is always preceded by  aggressive enemy action. It should be noted Israel has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt. The money sent to Israel as loans protects the fragile 13 mile wide state. No matter how thin you slice it Israel is still a democracy and Arabs are ruled by poilce states or oligarchies

7. They pretend that the US seeks an agreement between Israel and Palestine.
This is also completely wrong and a lie. EU former Foreign Policy Chief Javier Solana told the Israel that "you are the 21st country of the European Union." The European weapons industries cooperate with the Israeli military industries and support them financially. But when Palestinians elected their government, Europe did not recognize it and gave the green light to Israel to attack the Gaza Strip.

7.Israel being part of Europe is a result of Arab intolerance and does not negate any peace berween Israel and Palestine.Hamas at War with israel since 1995 was elected as a minority govt and lost that mandate in civil strife with Fatah. Hamas was recognized as terroristic by r the USA and Europe  in 1995 for its suicide bombings.

 8. When one talks about these facts and the history of Israel and Palestine, when one reveals the US interests in this situation, they call you anti-Semite to keep you silent.
But we should say that when we criticize Israel, it is not racism or anti-Semitism. We criticize a government that does not believe in the equality of Jews, Christians and Muslims, and so destroys the peace between followers of different religions.

8. Israel is the country in the Middle East that recognizes the equality of Jews, Arabs and Christians and there are many adherents of those denominations within  the State of Israel. Anti-semite, an archaic 19th century term, should be replaced by Jew hater. Its fairly easy to discern  Jew hatred attacks and criticism of Israeli policies.

9. The mass media say that Palestinians cause violence and terrorism.
We say Israel army's occupation is violence, the policy that has stolen land and home from Palestinians is violence.
9. Terrorism is unprovoked and unannounced violence meant to create terror or the uncertainty of  safety. That was a hallmark of the 2nd Intifada and the suicide bombings. The Israeli  army is always acting to retaliate  against these actions and to prevent them as well.  For example the Gaza operation was preceded by phone calls and letter drops of the impending action. The element of surprise  was decreased substantiably. And by providing lists of shelters and other non military targets, it saved thousands of lives from collateral damage. Israel has not stolen land as the

hilltops status are unresolved due to Palestinian inaction and there is no general home stealing policy.
10. An issue which is often raised is that there is no way for resolving this situation, and there is no solution for the hatred and the grudge caused by Israel and its accomplices.
But there is a solution. The only thing that can stop this process is the public pressure on the accomplices of Israel in the US and Europe and other parts of the world; public pressure on the mass media which refrain from telling the truth about Israel; and using the Internet or any other media out let to publish real news about Palestine.
10.Public pressure on Israel will not stop the Arab  and Iranian resolve to destroy Israel; Unless there is a public pressure campaign on those countries. But what we do see instead is timidity from the world in light of the faked Arab outrage of the Muhammed drawings that is giving a green light to the importation of Sharia in non-Muslim countries.

Israel is Wasted Its seed is no more!

The History of the Hebrew ancestors of the Jews is very very murkey. Its so murkey that its even the Jew haters an opening to declare the pre 9th century BCE null and void, Any excuse to deny the Jews their place in history brings the shiver of excitement to the Jew haters, whether they be western Nazis or Islamists. It began with the book, the Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman. In summing up decades of Israel archaeology, they could not find much evidence of the Exodus, Joshua, Kings David and Solomon. Anti-Semites cried with great glee the Bible is bogus. Although many of these very same anti-semites are scripture quoting automatons.

Silberman and Finklestein could discover no evidence of any journey of the Hebrews from Egypt. The time scale for Joshua's conquest of Cana'an could not be found. Either the burned cities were too early in the Bronze Age or much later in the Israelite kingdom.

They theorized with much supporting evidence than Hebrews were revolutionaries that overthrew the Cana'anite upper classes. They fled to Judea and Samaria to live simple yet free lives with a personal relation to God. One God.The first evidence of advanced civilization appear in Samaria as the Kingdom of Israel. By the In short time it grew powerful with megalithic buildings and palaces. The evidence supports this and supports that once destroyed by the Assyrian Empire the small virtually non-existant Kingdom of Judah replaced it. Just before or just after this destruction work was done on writing the most important piece of literature in Western civilization-The Old Testment of the Bible. Considering that much of the Bible is verified after the 8th century; its very likely that the older material is based on some facts. The cosmpolitan nature of King Josiahs Kingdom contrasts to the village existence 100 years previously.

Silberman and Finketein theorize the David was more a Robin Hood figure than a great king. Ditto with Solomon.

There is no evidence for Kingdoms just confederations of tribes.

But military historians point to the undeniable war stategies placed in real locales in Israel having to do with the war campaigns of Joshua, the Judges Gideon, Deborah, Samson, David and his son. Strategies from the Bible were followed in World war Two resulting is allied victories. So there was a realness here

To silence the OT deniers there is tiny bits of evidence. Theres the Ipuwer Papyrus which indicates a great upheaveal in Egyptian society about the same time as The megavolcano at Thera exploded. Excavations on Crete have shown that the megavolcano nearly destroyed the Minoan seafaring civilization by tsumami! So its easy to see tsumamis wreaking havoc and deluging the Nile Delta. The 10 plagues recited every Passover can be explained by the effects of such a catatastrophe, Canadian Jewish filmaker, Simcha Jacobovici, has made it one of his largest projects to prove the Exodus. He take on it includes another exodus of Hebrews to Mycenae. Where he feels the Ark of the Covenant ended up. Supporting this is a letter wrtitten decades after Alexander the Great conquered the Middle East. Its from King Arius of Sparta to the High Priest Onias of Judeaindicating a common ancestry. from the Avatar filmaker James Cameron has worked on this with Jacobovici. Explaining the Pillars of Fire/Light other have theorized that Mr Sinai was a volcano in whats now Saudi Arabia. Possible land bridges crossing the Red Sea have been found at the Eilat side of the Gulf of Aqaba and across the straits of Tiran as well.Josephus points to the origin of the Jews with the Semitic invasions of the Hyksos that lasted 300 years and may have ended in a great exodus.And Egyptian historian Manetho mentions two Exoduses One involving the Hyksos. The other one has been linked to a possible exile of monotheist Pharoah Akhenaten after an overthrow. This might explain the Hebraic one god Concept as developed from Akhenaten ong god aton Concept. This was all very circumstantal.

WHo was Moses? Was he the brother of Ahmose? Was he Akhenaten? Or was he the brother of Ahmose mentioned in the Ipuwer Papyrus? Or possibly an exiled Hyksos monarch. We dont know at this point. To say the Exodus was fiction is a little premature considering the leads. The Exodus is certianly not proven but neither has it been disproven like Joshua's conquests. When Greeks visited Judea after Alexander took the area from Darius they remarked the how obsessed the Judeans were with this ancient figure Moshe. Considering the the names of Egyptian Pharoahs, Ahmose, Tutmose, (Tothmoses), Rameses (Ramoses). Kmose (Kamoses) all around the era of a possible Hebrew or Hyksos emigration, was it a coincidence about Moses?

 And notice the bank place before the name Moses. A space possibly indicating belief in an invisible God. Its similar to depictions of the Ark of Covenant, where the two angels or sphinxes towards an empty space representing that invisible deity.

OT deniers suffered at setback when a stelae was found in Tel Dan in Northern Israel. This inscribed stone celebrated the King of Syria or Arams victory of the Houses of Israel and David. Notice it was David and not Judah. So David was such an impressive figure that his name preempted the name of Judah.

Another stelae from the same period celebrates the King of Moab's victory over the Kingdoms of Omri (Israel) and David (Judah). You might be able to infer that so dominating were the Hebrew kingdoms that stelae comemmorating setbacks were important to ther enemies.So however insignificant Judah was it was a frequent ally or it dominating neighbor. And for some reason despite the clashes they did have Judah was never conqured despites it Rhode Island size to Israel.

The most dramatic evidence of Israel emerging out of the murkiness is the Merneptah stelas. The Pharoah mentions a list of nations he defeated starting with the most powerful Libyans. The Libyans were allies of the mysterious combination of Seafaring nations, the Sea Peoples.

That particular age was marked by the end of the use of bronze which was the whole purpose of the Sea trade with the use of iron. That brought in land empires like Egypt later on. The Sea Peoples included Greek peoples and Semitic peoples. The Egyptians were the only nation to survive thise age of anarchy as the Hittite Empire crmbled and the coast of Cana'an was depopulated with survivors moving inland where the Hebrews later emerged.

One Sea People the Egyptians soundly defeated was the Peleshet. They forced the invaders to settle in Gaza and became the Phillistines associated with the Isrealites wars and David and Goliath.

The Merneptah document of stone was of a series of wars between two greater wars the Egyptians barely won against the Sea peoples confederation.

Before the Sea People wars nomads called Habiru had tormented the ruler of a pre-Hebrew Jebusite Jerusalem, so that he pleaded for help from the Pharoah. The Pharoah had evidented picked him as a local vassal.This was documented by the Armana letters dated to Akhenaten's reign.

Was there some connection to Biblical rulers like Priest-King Melchizedek?

The King of (Jeru)Salem who was very personally involved with the patriarch Abraham.Abraham is dated to an earlier Bronze age period coinciding with Hyksos domination of Egypt

Merneptah mentions many large to small victories. The defeated are Cana'an, Ashkelon (the Phillistines), Gezer and Israel. Thery arent referred to as a country but as a people. Silberman and Finklestein think that Israel was most likely nomadic or semi-nomadic people as indcated by their settlements resembled a circle of wagons turned into stone houses.

The people of Israel's defeat in 1208-9 bce is described as "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more". There is even a heiroglyph of Merneptah metaphorically whipping his enemy. It practically sounds genocidal but it was common for the Pharoah to exaggerate because it enhanced his standing back in Memphis.   Much like the Palestinians and Arabs do today.What I find particularly striking is that Israels first mention, despite being a congomeration of nomads, is the declaration of their destruction. This theme of utter destruction was repeated by Haddad of Aram (Syria) Mesha of Moab, The Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Seleucid Syrian Greeks, the Romans (twice), Crusaders, Kingdom of Spain, the Cossacks, The Russian Empire, Nazi Germany and manmy Jew haters on the internet today. Thats 3000 years of unfulfilled promises of extermination.

No people or country can match that resistance to obliteration.

Family Vendetta of Hate

The Israel Arab paradigm is often described as a war of religions, or conflict of 2 nations for the same land. But what is amazingly suppressed

is that it was also a vendetta. For 84 of its 90 year existence so far the Arab-Jewish war was lead by a man and his nephew. The Grand Mufti a-Husseni appointed by a British Jew to represent Arab interest in the mandate was the uncle of PLO chief and Palestine President Yasir Arafat. Its mindboggling as to why I had never heard of this. This Grand Mufti as I already mentioned in this blog orchestrated the Arab riots and revolts against the Jewish settlers from 1920 until the ElNabka or Israel's War of Independence. He feel the Jewish people were a threat to Arab Islamic culture. He was right, Islamic culture was shredding in its contact with Western culture and its myriad of philosophies democracy to socialism to fascism.Materialism and progressivism was destroying the fragile patriarchy. In Palestine where contact with Europe was minimal this posed a great threat as the Jews were legitimately there. They has a continual presence and history. So negotiating with them was out of the question.So the Grand Mufti instituting a strategy of terror that continues today based on Islam as before. He sent goons int o the strets to kill Jews, This escalated to massacres in 1929. And full war in 1936 with the British was well. The Jews were well defended by the 1930's so the Grand Mufti being a radical Islamofascist attacked the moderate Arabs killing more of his brother Muslims than Jews. This was successas the British buckled to al-Husseini's first demand. Limit immigration! And the Brits prevented Jews from Europe to escape the Nazi war machine and settle inn Israel and most wound up dead in the Holocaust. In this way the British despite fighting Nazi Germany were complicit in the death of a huge number of the 6 million lives. The Grand Mufti eager to see no more Jews in Palestine traveled to the Third Reich and became a supporter and guest of the Fuhrer. He even commanded a Muslim Gestapo. After the War he pleaded with the Arab League to prevent the binational (2 state solution) enity of Palestine from being created. The league responded with the 5 Arab Armies of Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. The Grand Mufti called for those armies to "Drive the Jews into the Sea" meaning he wanted to create a second genocide of the Jewish people in less than a decade. Suprisingly the Arabs were beaten back by the kibbutz militias. What was not taken by the Jews did not become the State of Palestine but was patitioned by Egypt and Jordan.


The Mufti died a few years later bitter at not removing the Jews. His nephew emerged in the sixties. First as leader of fatah and later as Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization a coalition of terror groups that used hostage takings, massacres, bombings and plane hijackings to force the world to pay attention. Their enemies the Israelis were already paying attention as they evolved out of cross border terrorist raiders the fedayeen; who regular kiled civilans from bases in Gaza and the The Jordanian West Bank. Arafat needed to brand the Arab refugees who before the British Mandate (1919-1948) considered themselves Syrians. They had no political or ethnic identification for 44 years. So he simply revived the Roman/European term Palestine as new name of the Arab nation in 1964.As Fatah or Palestinian leader he revived the war against the Jews. But the PLO expanded the scope from Israel to Europe. The war became the theatre of spectacles. Spectacles like the blowing up of 3 hijacked airliners in 1970, the killing of Israeli athetes in the munich Olympics, the Entebbe incident, and the capture of a cruise liner the Achille Nauro. His bgreates non violent trumph was branding Zionism as racism by a cowed UN in 1974. Its was later repealed in a more thoughtful and intrpoective era 2 decades later. But attacking Israel with rockets was never forgotten. Rockets landing in Nothern Israel in 1978 and 1982 led to Sharons invasion of Lebanon and the destruction of the PLO mini-state, That state was later replaced by todays Hezbullah's mini state. Arafat fled Beirut and was marginalized in exile in Tunis. To regain stature he sacrificed some arab demands and retuned to Palestine as President after the Oslo agreement. Unable to control Hamas and terror groups Arafat never even countered proposals by Barak and Clinton and fled to Ramallah after the 2nd intifada began, As a homesexual he contracted aids and died in 2004. You see Arafat was continuing a personal vendatta of his uncle in trying to eliminate or minimize non Muslim presence in the Muslim Umma lands.

Psychically Marginal People - Junkies of Hate

There are many personalities that roam internet forums. In my wanderings around these forums Ive encountered many types. The forums I frequented had an unusually high number of Jew Haters. They were from a variety of politcal and religious beliefs but the common denominator was the joy of hate. More ancient that the the hatred of anothers skin color is the hatred of the Jews. In cookie cutter medieval Europe the Jews stood out in appearance. They stood out as scapegoats to blame immaturely for every misfortune.They played "whomp-a-mole" with Jews for centuries. But they stood out mostly as being framed for the killers of Jesus Christ. Christians hunted and persecuted the Jews also as competion for the "right religion". That rivalry brought Christianity in conflict with Islam as well. In Muslim lands the Jews were competition for Islam. That earned them oppression and second class status in their caste system.

The worst suffering there could not approach the insulted otrage of the Roman Church and their flocks of iron.


So the groundwork was set for the bigotry of today, Hatemongers on the internet are concerned with facts. Many are confronted by facts they simply dismiss as inconsequential. On many cases they simply not even aware of a a small modicom of historical knowlegde or even reasoning ability. They arent pursuing the truth. They insist they are after the truth but there is little truth there. Its a derivative of the magical hatred of the Middle ages the Church encouraged. The Church created legions of these zombies in those "days of yore" but they cannot put them all back in the cage. There arent really that many. Just enough to slant the internet. Whereas they were loners in the past; today they are a social network in the quest of what theyre addicted to. They are junkies of Hate. These monsters became the Nazi Germany in the desperate era of post World war 1 depressions. You see them in certain areas, certain threads repeating the same blames over and over on a rote continuum. You would think that forums are there for discussion with words. but they use the words like weapons to distort, to lie, to exaggerate in small compositions composed of truth a lies called disinformation. Thises distortions immediately reward the authors as verification. While its not really verification but a pretense they get a high of gratifaction. So facts dont matter at all. They are continually looking for that high. The best way for this gratifucation is a back-slapping interaction. Forums like Stormfront gove these dregs of humanity an opportunity to meet and feed of of each ones hate. The first hate forums Ive entered I was the only Jew, There were some predisposed to decency who were not Jews. This time was the Second Intifada where all varieties of bigots fed off of the joy of hating Jews. The right wingers, the wde variety of Neo-Nazis and whir supremacists cried crocodile tears for Palestinians as they still do. The outraged equality deceived liberals anf leftists are convinced by the hate and see the dogma a real. No pretense exist for them. But they too get a charge is commiserating hoe they hate Jews, The absurdity of many viewpoints and blane for multitudes of issues raraly dawns on them. But the rightists suppress the need for logic and credibility.


The knee-slapping, backslapping festivals bring in people like me determined to bring the haters down to earth with facts. Facts that refute the bias, the dogma. When this happens I notice its like sudden dawn at a vampyre party. They sometimes quickly vanish amid cries, tantrums, rages, slurs. After they leave its as if they wait in their coffins for the murmurs of reality to subside or peter out.


You find that the decent fair minded posters that patrol the forums to break up the festivities have a variety if reasons to do this. Sometimes they just hate the haters. Sometimes they are just smarter. They are determined people usually conservative. But I found whether by accident or design more Jews like me started entering the fray. Forums like Reportersnotebook Message board were more starting to be visited by Jews, Zionists and other anti-bigots. That was one hate fest that petered out until Network54 got so many reports of racism they revoked the owner Michael Santmauros contract. Liberty Forum was next for me. There i met at first free thinkers and later Jews horrified at the regurgation of dismissed anti-semitic lies. Two I remember were Down South and Sgt Stryker. Down South obviously a veteran of this word wars told me The kind of psychically marginal people who join neo Nazi groups are looking for the solace of a Total explanation of the universe because for them, life is simply too confusing and unsettleing. The emotional food of these people is hate, They need it to distract then from seeing the reality barely comprehend.